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Voyager v.s. The Next Generation and Deep Space 9

Discussion in ' Star Trek: Voyager ' started by Nine of Four , Sep 1, 2013 .

The Next Generation/Deep Space 9

Nine of Four

Nine of Four Commander Red Shirt

I've heard a lot of people say Voyager is the worst of the three, one of the worst series. But I've also heard a lot of people say Voyager is the best series EVER. I'd like to settle it right now.  

Melakon

Melakon Admiral In Memoriam

Nine of Four said: ↑ I'd like to settle it right now. Click to expand...

Lighthammer

Lighthammer Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

I've said it before and I'll say it again; I think anyone who thinks Voyager is clearly better is looking at the others (TNG in particular) through rose colored glasses and voyager through darker colored glasses. Voyager felt far too much to me like "The little ship that could" during its premier, but now that its almost 20 years since the series launched and I've seen it in rerun a whole bunch of times now (and rewatch the series about once a year), I've really come to realize its written a lot better then I gave it credit for in premier and I think a lot of fans are the same way. Truthfully, the lessons the writers, producers and directors learned in TNG and DS9 culminated in Voyager and started to towards the end of Enterprise. If Enterprise didn't get cut off in its prime, I think it would have easily been recognized as the best Star Trek series; that simply demonstrates each series has gotten progressively better.  

F. King Daniel

F. King Daniel Fleet Admiral Admiral

In the past couple of years I've rewatched TOS, VOY and ENT. For the most part, I've enjoyed myself. Up next was TNG - but I couldn't make it. The show has aged terribly . The acting and direction is poor (the direction is so awful, they literally stand around taking turns to recite lines), the morals are trite and the action is next to nonexistent. Deep Space Nine was the first series I got on DVD, and I still haven't been able to bring myself to watch it. Therefore - Voyager wins.  

Lucky

Lucky Captain Captain

Had to vote against Voyager. I like it, but as far as I'm concerned it is the worst Star Trek series.  

Tosk

Tosk Admiral Admiral

The poll doesn't specify whether you're supposed to vote for worst or best.  

DonIago

DonIago Vice Admiral Admiral

^Indeed. Anyway, TNG vs. VOY might be interesting, but DS9 is, for me, better than either one.  
And lumping TNG and DS9 together skews the results regardless of what the question is supposed to be.  

MacLeod

MacLeod Admiral Admiral

Agreed, the poll should also include TOS and ENT and be in the general Trek sub-forum. As some people might not venture into the VOY sub-forum further skewing the results.  

dauntless

dauntless Lieutenant Commander Red Shirt

TNG for me. I personally believe that DS9 is the worst of the three - wooden acting being the biggest issue.  
DS9 started out all right, but all the obsession with space battle scenes is not what I watch Star Trek for. If I wanted big space battles, I'd watch Star Wars (and I don't mean that guy with the threads).  
(blinks) Obsession with space battle scenes? Beyond a certain point, the series was portraying a war between two major powers. Battles were inevitably going to occur, and I believe they're in the minority of episodes. Anyway, sorry if the show wasn't to your liking.  
MacLeod said: ↑ Agreed, the poll should also include TOS and ENT and be in the general Trek sub-forum. As some people might not venture into the VOY sub-forum further skewing the results. Click to expand...

BillJ

BillJ The King of Kings Premium Member

TOS>TNG>ENT>VOY>DS9  
Amusingly I can't tell whether that's intended to be worst-best or best-worst.  
DonIago said: ↑ (blinks) Obsession with space battle scenes? Beyond a certain point, the series was portraying a war between two major powers. Battles were inevitably going to occur, and I believe they're in the minority of episodes. Anyway, sorry if the show wasn't to your liking. Click to expand...
DonIago said: ↑ Amusingly I can't tell whether that's intended to be worst-best or best-worst. Click to expand...

Bry_Sinclair

Bry_Sinclair Vice Admiral Admiral

DS9 beat VOY in stories, characters, development and overall feel. They had great arcs, plenty of storylines that crossed each season and were revisited, rich and interesting main characters and brilliant recurring ones too. VOY had some good moments but it never hit what it could've been, it never had a sense of isolation and desperation that a ship lost 70 years from home would have had, whilst the premise itself kinda demands the need for some sense of serialisation. Add to that some wishy-washy characters who didn't really go anywhere and the fact that most were ignored for a pair of bionic boobs in the matter half of the show. That compared to the combined might of TNG/DS9 and it doesn't stand a chance.  

Akiraprise

Akiraprise To Ꝏ & BEYOND! Moderator

Voyager remains my favorite. Although I like all of the series. Any Star Trek is better than no Star Trek. I never really got into DS9 first run thanks to the network that was showing it butchering the schedule. I missed huge chunks of the ongoing arcs thanks to sports preemptions all of the time. TNG is good, despite the first two seasons looking bad from today's standards. The stories still hold true. ENT's first two seasons were mediocre at best, the last two were pretty sweet. TOS is TOS, it started it all. But I have a soft spot for VOY. It was showing when I was going through high school and I really looked forward to watching it week after week. It was the Trek I grew up with and it aired at a time when spoilers were pretty much nonexistent for me. I did not know of any behind the scenes stuff. I just liked the characters, the ship, the premise, Seven of Nine...  

Bad Thoughts

Bad Thoughts Vice Admiral Admiral

Although it's not my favorite Trek series (I don't often have a hankering to rewatch episodes the way I do with even Enterprise), I think Voyager gets unfairly maligned as TOS part 3. It's a little too easy to point to single episodes and say, "that's why Voyager was so bad," as if the other series didn't have their crewmembers transforms in strange ways. I do think the show went too many times to the well with the Borg, diluting one of the franchise's more powerful storytelling tools. On the other hand, I think that the first two seasons are more assured than the other series. Although the Kazon could seem to be derivative and unbelievable in their incompetence, they were certainly the right size for villains for the ship. Indeed, if the story had remained in the Alpha Quadrant, Janeway et al would not be taking on the same tasks as Picard. It's missions would be smaller in scale, and the villains would need to be downsized appropriately (unless, of couse, the ship became involved in the Dominion War). Of all the little things that could have been done to improve the show (like not focusing on three characters and pissing off the rest of the cast), there's really only one thing I think would have drastically improved the show: that Mulgrew was invested in Janeway the same way Brooks was invested in Sisko, putting forth not just a de facto vision of a women in charge, but making the character a focus of commentary on femininity and authority. (I'm sure people will disagree with the assessment.) BTW, I didn't vote in the poll--too simple.  
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Deep Space Nine vs. Voyager

  • Thread starter Nikkolas
  • Start date Feb 23, 2009

Nikkolas

  • Feb 23, 2009

Which was the better second-class ST show? (well it seems TOS and TNG are agreed to be the best so these two are second-class) I've seen some of Voyager, namely the eps with S8472, and it looks okay. I've yet to see any of DS9 however and am curious about which would be more enjoyable to watch.  

Reaperman

I ain't your average sicko

Second class? DS9 was easily the best of the Trek shows IMO. It had long overspanning story arcs, complex grey characters and moral dilemmas. Not to mention it had the most and best space battles, and the most awesome starship of them all. EDIT: Above all, DS9 had Garak!  

Q99

I feel DS9 is better than TNG which is in turn much better than Voyager. I know a lot of people who considered DS9 to be the best Trek show- it didn't get the ratings TNG did while it was on, but it did have an overarcing story and some great characters.  

mackon

Missing & Presumed Dead

DS9 was the best Trek. Voyager and TNG were much the same, except TNG was lifted by Picard and Voyager dragged down by Janeway.  

Crazy Tom

I'm rather fond of milk

Hm. Didn't expect this. Gues I'll watch DS9.  

Chris000

DS9 will always have a place in my heart. Just remember Plain, Simple Garak for all your clothing needs. Also, the endless arguments between Quark and Odo canNOT be beat by anything else, well...maybe Q and Picard.  

DrToxicophilous

DS9 definitely  

Ladiesman

DS9 was good for people who didn't really care for Trek that much. I think I may actually enjoy Voyager more in the long run only because I *LIKE* Star Trek because it doesn't have all the dark elements that every other sci-fi franchise does. DS9, while a good show, became more of a generic sci-fi show.  

Lorgar Aurelian

Lorgar Aurelian

Book of lorgar.

Es Arkajae

God Emperor of Earth

  • Feb 24, 2009

DS9 is the best TV series out of all the Trek shows.  

Teln

I'm Captain Basch! Don't listen to Ondore's lies!

...Not much love for ENT, is there?  

THeSquirrelKing

THeSquirrelKing

Tyrranical rodent.

Crazy Tom said: Once I was old enough to appreciate story arcs, grey characters and lack of a reset button , I got into DS9 a lot more... Click to expand... Click to shrink...

zzz

Fuckin' Lurker

TNG> DS9 > TOS > Voyager/ENT as far as I'm concerned.  

THeSquirrelKing said: Oh come on, how many times tit DS9 push the reset button? "Here's a brand new Defiant, also named the Defiant!" Click to expand... Click to shrink...

Archdevil

High Admiral

Damar said: Actually it was officially called the Sao Paulo, and Sisko had to get Admiral approvement to rename it Defiant again. Click to expand... Click to shrink...

murtalianconfed

murtalianconfed

I must admit, I do prefer DS9. Its not fantastic compared to other francises, and the need to try and wedge the Bajoran's religion into almost every episode tended to grate, but it was okay.  

Dark Asendant

Dark Asendant

DS9 is a thousand times better than Voyager if you let your brain do even a tiny amount of thinking while watching television. Voyager is...brainless.  

murtalianconfed said: I must admit, I do prefer DS9. Its not fantastic compared to other francises, and the need to try and wedge the Bajoran's religion into almost every episode tended to grate, but it was okay. Click to expand... Click to shrink...

Skyzeta

Friendly Oppressor

I'm going to leave TOS in it's own little category, because it never really clicked, but I know what it meant. Out of the second generation series, I've always viewed it thus: DS9 was probably the best overall. I tend to tie TNG and Enterprise. As bad as Enterprise was often claimed to be (and I never thought it was as horrible as some people claimed) it never dived into some of the pits that the first two seasons of TNG did. That said, I'm not sure it ever quite climbed to same heights, though under Manny Coto it looked like that was a real possibility. Voyager in a lot of ways was like TNG in that kind of dithering respect, until somewhere near the end of the fourth season, it finally got shot down and began a long slow plunge. And I don't blame seven for that, if anything she helped keep a dying ship afloat longer then it otherwise should have been able to.  

...Not much love for ENT, is there? Click to expand... Click to shrink...

Enosh

DS9>TNG=TOS>ENT>>>>VOY imo ofcourse, I always enjoyed DS9, the characters were made much better than anything in any other ST and the universe was more "grimdark" beacose of the war not the happy hippie place TNG was. "In the pale moonlight" is probably the best ST episode ever made but I did read that a lot of ST fans don't like DS9 beacose of the darker aproach to it compared to other ST works, some even say that Gene wouldn't aprove of what they did with DS9.  

FleetAdmiral

FleetAdmiral

Serving the imperial navy.

To be honest, I only found a few episodes of TNG good - the Wolf 359 issue, "Yesterday's Enterprise", Klingon Civil War As for DS9, I personally preferred the episodes near and during the Dominion War. DS9 had excellent characters in the form of Garak and Gul Dukat (who was an always entertaining villain). Garak was always full of surprises and always did the right thing, from a certain point of view. Later with the introduction of (later) Legget Damar was another villain that everyone learned to like. Especially with this speech ( http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nlbEzNHvrUE ). And the always entertaining jest between Quark and Odo. Plus DS9 showed what lengths (to a point) the Federation would go to, to win - IE Tricking the Romulans into joining the war on their side. Voyager had some good episodes, but it is a less series.  

Cap'n Chryssalid

Cap'n Chryssalid

The armor piercing wang.

DS9 is still my favorite; a few years ago, I'd probably have put TNG ahead of it, but really, looking back it is easier to re-watch a lot of DS9 episodes than it is TNG. Maybe its because you can remember where an individual episode fits within the season and the broader story, rather than it just being another episode that could have happened... whenever...  

Screen Rant

“anti-serialization” was voyager’s weakness compared to ds9, says star trek: discovery creator.

Star Trek: Voyager could have hit its stride much earlier if it had embraced the serialized storytelling of its predecessor, Deep Space Nine.

  • Bryan Fuller believes that the lack of serialization in Star Trek: Voyager stifled character development and hindered the writing process.
  • In contrast, Star Trek: Deep Space Nine's serialized format allowed for the evolution and growth of its characters, which made the storytelling more effective.
  • When Voyager did embrace serialization, it became richer in its storytelling and showcased the transition from a syndicated model to a modern cable model.

Star Trek: Discovery creator Bryan Fuller says "anti-serialization" was a weakness of Star Trek: Voyager , especially compared to its predecessor, Star Trek: Deep Space Nine . DS9 wove a rich tapestry of stories about the Dominion War, centering the moral dilemmas inherent to maintaining Federation ideals at a time of political upheaval and strife, which necessitated a serialized format in order to be effective. Star Trek: Voyager, by contrast, rarely lingered in one part of space during its homeward quest, and Voyager 's earlier stories reflected that steady pace onward by maintaining its characterization from week to week.

Bryan Fuller was a writer on Star Trek: Voyager before creating Star Trek: Discovery, which relies on modern serialized storytelling methods in its ambitious season-long arcs and is richer for recognizing its characters' evolutions. In The Fifty-Year Mission: The Next 25 Years by Mark A. Altman and Edward Gross , Fuller explains how the lack of serialization in Star Trek : Voyager stifled the development of its characters, ultimately also hindering the writing process as storylines had to be abandoned in favor of constant forward motion. Read Fuller's quote below:

The strength of DS9 was its serialization. Its ability to say this is an ongoing story and we have to see our characters evolve and change and grow. On Voyager, I remember we had an episode where B’Elanna Torres had kind of a religious reawakening and it was going to be a huge deal that this person, who was essentially a recovering Catholic, had turned her back on the Church and had no interest in being a part of it anymore, then has this fantastic experience where she sees the afterlife. She has a religious epiphany. To me, that was something so fascinating for this character to go through, because she is essentially having a confirmation of things that she had previously denied to herself and to everyone who would listen. Now she has to deal with religion becoming fact in her heart. But the storyline was just dropped. It was, like, here we have a character who can rediscover things and yet it was “No, you’re holding on to storylines from previous episodes and we have to move forward.” The weakness of Voyager in its anti-serialization was the strength of DS9. And when Voyager did embrace its serialized nature or a serialized nature it was more rich in its storytelling for it. It really was seeing a very early transition from a syndicated model into what is now more representative of a modern cable model.

Star Trek: Voyager’s 20 Best Episodes Ranked

Star trek: voyager improved when it embraced serialization, seven of nine's necessary character arc jump started others.

Star Trek: Voyager 's early attempts at serialization were sporadic at best, but Voyager improved when it allowed its characters to be affected by their circumstances instead of keeping them stagnant. Voyager 's mixed Maquis and Starfleet crew should have been the source of more strife, but that aspect of its concept was quickly dropped, leaving only the discovery of Seska (Martha Hackett) as a Cardassian traitor as its sole ongoing storyline early on. After Seska's departure, Voyager hurried along its course to the Alpha Quadrant with characters that usually reset to their base models after single episode revelations , as Fuller describes.

The addition of Seven of Nine (Jeri Ryan) brought numerous changes to Star Trek: Voyager , including the adoption of more serialized storytelling. Voyager kept its self-contained episodes, but the concept of Seven as a Borg drone becoming a more realized human required serialization in order to work. Because Seven had to change, other Voyager characters were also free to begin developing beyond their initial templates , most evident in the relationship between Lt. Tom Paris (Robert Duncan McNeill) and Lt. B'Elanna Torres (Roxann Dawson), and the evolution of the Doctor (Robert Picardo). Fuller's comments reinforce character development as central to engaging storytelling, which Star Trek: Voyager achieved when it embraced serialization.

Star Trek: Voyager is streaming on Paramount+.

Source: The Fifty-Year Mission: The Next 25 Years: From The Next Generation to J. J. Abrams: The Complete, Uncensored, and Unauthorized Oral History of Star Trek by Mark A. Altman and Edward Gross

Star Trek Voyager

IMAGES

  1. USS Voyagers VS DS9

    ds9 vs voyager reddit

  2. ‘Star Trek: Picard’ Season 3 Is A Continuation Of ‘Voyager’ And DS9 Too

    ds9 vs voyager reddit

  3. CBS/Paramount: If there was ever a time to start looking into

    ds9 vs voyager reddit

  4. A DS9/Voyager mashup. : r/DeepSpaceNine

    ds9 vs voyager reddit

  5. I Can Restore Star Trek Voyager and Deep Space Nine to HD, So Why Can't

    ds9 vs voyager reddit

  6. Star Trek DS9 vs Voyager which is better you decide

    ds9 vs voyager reddit

VIDEO

  1. JWST VS VOYAGER 2 FOTO NEPTUNUS

  2. 2023 09 08 RTHS vs Voyager 2 1

  3. The Prometheus Problem

  4. Eca vs voyager qualifier round part 3

  5. Eca vs voyager qualifier rounds part 1

  6. Eca vs voyager qualifiers part 2

COMMENTS

  1. TNG, DS9 or Voyager. Which is best? : r/startrek

    As far as ratings and popularity go, TNG was by far the most popular, DS9 was a solid second, and VOY was third by default. They are all pretty different shows. TNG was idealistic and was a bit more intellectual. DS9 was darker, engaged in politics, war, and story arcs. VOY didn't really figure out what it wanted to be, but managed to throw out ...

  2. I always knew that DS9 is better than TNG. Here is the proof ...

    And it totally laid the groundwork that makes DS9 possible. But all that said, DS9 is definitely the best. As good as TNG is, DS9 is just better. They do a dig deep with great writers and actors and characters and the end result is just a masterpiece of television drama.

  3. Should I watch DS9 or Voyager? : r/startrek

    Each episode of Voyager is 44 minutes long (if you skip the opening and closing credits), so at 172 episodes it would take 129 hours to watch it all. Alas, as of this moment there are only 80 hours left before Voyager vanishes from Netflix. Go for DS9. Also, I would not call DS9 or any Star Trek explicitly "leftist".

  4. Voyager is as good as TNG and DS9. : r/startrek

    Personally I rate DS9 over voyager, it has some of the best episodes of trek full stop imo. But that's my opinion, because I'm sure I like different things to other people, even other trek fans. Reply reply ... Got to keep in mind Reddit is a weird Echo chamber. They pretty much silence in downvote anybody that doesn't share the prevalent opinions.

  5. Voyager v.s. The Next Generation and Deep Space 9

    Aug 10, 2013. Location: On a Borg Cube in the Delta Quadrant. I've heard a lot of people say Voyager is the worst of the three, one of the worst series. But I've also heard a lot of people say Voyager is the best series EVER. I'd like to settle it right now. Nine of Four, Sep 1, 2013. #1.

  6. Deep Space Nine vs. Voyager

    Q99. Feb 23, 2009. #4. I feel DS9 is better than TNG which is in turn much better than Voyager. I know a lot of people who considered DS9 to be the best Trek show- it didn't get the ratings TNG did while it was on, but it did have an overarcing story and some great characters.

  7. You Fix It: Star Trek Voyager : r/Star_Trek_

    After a firefight with DS9 security, the Maquis make off with Voyager with one or two accompanying ships. Sisko would want Voyager back, as he would be partially involved in its design, or rather the design of one or more of its systems that is made for war against the Borg, and could be put to use against the possible Dominion threat.

  8. AI (artificial intelligence) to help us remaster (upscale and ...

    I would love to see STNG, Voyager, and DS9 in widescreen HD format. Previously this would take millions of dollars and months of work that studios didn't want to do. STNG barely got HD at one point. With AI (artificial intelligence), however, we've seen the magic it can do at this early stage.

  9. "Anti-Serialization" Was Voyager's Weakness Compared To DS9, Says Star

    Star Trek: Discovery creator Bryan Fuller says "anti-serialization" was a weakness of Star Trek: Voyager, especially compared to its predecessor, Star Trek: Deep Space Nine. DS9 wove a rich tapestry of stories about the Dominion War, centering the moral dilemmas inherent to maintaining Federation ideals at a time of political upheaval and strife, which necessitated a serialized format in order ...

  10. DS9 or Voyager?

    Voyager is, at best, lukewarm. DS9 expands upon the universe you knew in TNG and makes it more complex and more interesting. In many ways, DS9 was a better show than TNG. DS9's characters are rich, well-developed and interesting. The supporting cast is the best of any science fiction show I've ever seen.

  11. I Can Restore Star Trek Voyager and Deep Space Nine to HD ...

    A little over two years ago, I launched a personal and completely unofficial effort to restore Star Trek: Deep Space Nine based on the original DVD source, using then-new software like Topaz Video ...

  12. DS9 Vs Voyager

    The original series had 4 time travel episodes TNG had 9 (possible 12 I don't count three of them because one was and "Alternate dimension, and the others were Q's doing so they may or may not have been time travel. could have be Q' just messing with Picard's head) DS9 had 11 Voyager: had 12 Enterprise: Had 11 specific episode that the time ...

  13. Paramount Announces 'Demastered Edition' of Star Trek Deep Space Nine

    In lieu of these options, Paramount has announced a new, "Demastered Edition" of Star Trek Deep Space Nine and Star Trek Voyager. Instead of using Blu-ray or even DVD, these new editions of the ...

  14. Why Fans May Never See DS9 or Voyager on Blu-ray

    The Movement by Fans to Do the Job. In 2020, I interviewed a few Trek fans taking it upon themselves to do this tedious work of upconverting DS9 and Voyager.Rather than rescanning all the old 35mm ...

  15. Could CBS Be Planning to Upgrade 'DS9' and 'Voyager' to HD?

    Nerdist noted that if CBS upgraded "Deep Space Nine" and " Voyager ," they could "future-proof these two series for streaming.". Meaning that in the future, new fans are likely to skip ...

  16. What is the chronological order for the Star Trek series?

    2364 to 2370: Star Trek: The Next Generation (ST:TNG) 2371 to 2371: Star Trek: Generations (bulk of the movie except prologue) 2373 to 2373: First Contact. 2375 to 2375: Insurrection. 2369 to 2375: Star Trek: Deep Space 9 (ST: DS9) Partially overlaps with TNG, Generations and 2 TNG movies. Season 1 is same time as TNG season 6.

  17. Star Trek: Voyager Gets 4K Upscale Remaster via AI

    Reddit user theboomsterz remastered (Opens in a new window) the TV show using Topaz Gigapixel AI initially before switching to Topaz Video Enhance AI. He's published a couple of clips to show the ...