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This Rap Tour Is Really Smokin’

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It’s one of those music fan mental exercises, like assembling a “desert island” list of essential albums: What would the ultimate concert be? In rock maybe you go with the fantasy bill of Elvis, the Rolling Stones and the Clash. For country, Hank Williams, Willie Nelson and Johnny Cash are surely tenable. And in R & B, try to find a better lineup than Aretha Franklin, Marvin Gaye and Stevie Wonder.

But what about rap?

Well, how about Dr. Dre, Snoop Dogg and Ice Cube? And, just for fun, throw in that mercurial upstart Eminem, just to keep the kids interested. Now that would be a dream team for sure--but it’s no daydream. In fact, that stellar squad is on its way to an arena near you.

The Up in Smoke tour, headlined by Dre and featuring a deep supporting cast (Warren G, Xzibit, Kurupt, Mack 10, WC, Tha Eastsidaz, MC Ren), assembles tonight in Chula Vista to kick off a national tour that visits the Arrowhead Pond in Anaheim on Friday and Sunday.

“It is, without a doubt, the greatest rap tour in our time,” says Michael Papale, a partner in The Firm, the management company for Cube, the Backstreet Boys and Korn. “I equate it to when the Who and Clash toured. . . . This tour galvanizes a generation and galvanizes the races. You won’t believe the crowd, it’s going to be like going to a Laker game.”

Even if this tour boasts more stars than the Lakers, it may not qualify with some as the clear-cut winner as the ultimate fantasy rap concert. There are strong cases to be made, of course, for Tupac Shakur, Public Enemy, the Beastie Boys or Run DMC.

“Yeah, so I’m not going to say it’s the greatest ever,” Cube says. “But it is definitely something special. . . . Everybody on this bill is as famous as famous can be. They have nothing to prove to anybody, so there’s a comfort level. We’re all here as a West Coast family.”

The tour also benefits from some intriguing subplots, among them Eminem’s recent legal woes, the reunion of three of N.W.A’s surviving members and, despite Cube’s view of it as a family affair, the task of juggling major star egos.

“It’s hard; the problem is there’s not enough time and too much talent,” says Xzibit, the 25-year-old Los Angeles rapper. “It was extremely hard sequencing the show. . . . It’s about 3 1/2 hours, but Dre took care of it. It came down to the best of the best from everybody. The show never stops moving.”

Didn’t some acts want a bigger chunk of stage time? “Oh yeah,” Xzibit said with a chuckle. “But Dre is the president, this is his show. It’s Dre time.”

Or, as Papale, Cube’s manager, says: “It’s Dre’s world right now, we just live in it.” That’s what they used to say about Frank Sinatra, and its not a stretch to say Dre is now the chairman of the board in the rap world. Besides his work in the seminal gangsta rap group N.W.A, Dre has now put his imprint on several key moments in hip-hop history.

His “Dr. Dre 2001” disc, released in November, is closing in on 5 million copies sold and has, remarkably, outsold his watershed 1992 disc “The Chronic,” which introduced the world to a young rapper named Snoop Doggy Dogg and yielded the song “Nuthin’ but a ‘G’ Thang,” named by Spin Magazine as the best single of the 1990s.

Dre is playing the role of mentor-producer for a young phenom again, this time with the 26-year-old Marshall Mathers--better known as Eminem, the hottest rapper today. Anointed and accompanied by Dre, Eminem has become the first solo white rapper to earn huge commercial success and street credibility within a genre dominated by black artists.

Eminem’s guest appearances on “Dr. Dre 2001” hits such as “Forgot About Dre” not only pumped up sales of that disc, they also churned up further fan interest in the young rapper. That paid off at the end of last month, when Eminem’s second album, “The Marshall Mathers LP,” sold 1.8 million copies in its first week. That set a record for single-week sales by a solo artist and set the stage for quick sell-outs for the Up in Smoke tour. The disc has held on to the No. 1 spot for three weeks now.

“The timing absolutely could not be better for this tour,” says Gary Bongiovanni, the editor-in-chief of Pollstar, a trade publication for the concert industry. “It has an incredibly strong bill, and Eminem is hanging on at No. 1. Eminem brings a huge cross-cultural appeal.”

The heat surrounding Eminem might suggest that he would be better served by a splashy solo tour.

“Yeah, it’s a concern,” says Paul Rosenberg, Eminem’s manager. “But we made this commitment to Dre a while ago, and the best thing for Eminem long term is tour with Dre right now, not to go out and do something quick. . . . This helps take him to the next level, performing in front of large crowds with Dr. Dre, which is what people want to see right now.”

The West Coast version of the show opens with Warren G and Eastsidaz. Then comes Eminem’s solo set; Cube with MC Ren, Mack 10 and WC; and finally Dre and Snoop. But throughout the show (which will be staged on multiple sets, including one that an insider compared to Superman’s icy Fortress of Solitude), they’ll perform in various combinations. More than once, most or all the rappers will be on stage together. And, while MC Ren is not on the official bill, several sources say he will join the tour, setting the stage for him to join Cube and Dre for a reunion of most of N.W.A.

“There will be just a smidgen of N.W.A,” Cube says, “We want to do a full N.W.A tour later this year, so we’re just going to give people a taste, just enough. . . . There will be a lot going on, the show will be almost four hours. But it’s not going to be one of those shows you get tired of, believe me.”

Rap Has Proved Weak on the Road

So promoters in the 40-plus cities on the tour must be thrilled, right? “That’s tough to read,” Bongiovanni says. The reason is that hard-core rap and hip-hop in general have rarely spawned blockbuster tours. The rap genre may be a dynamo in record stores, but it has often fizzled on the road.

The Hard Knock Life tour, headlined by Jay-Z and DMX, was a strong performer in 1999, and the Smokin’ Grooves festival logged a few good years on the road before it was discontinued last year, but they have been the exceptions to the rule. No hard-core show hasbeen among the Top 10-grossing tours in any of the last four years, even though the genre’s albums are routinely among the top sellers at retail.

Bongiovanni and others point to a variety of factors for the rap-concert doldrums, among them fans’ perception of possible danger. There’s also the ethos of the shows themselves: The genre is so married to studio and turntable wizardry that live performances can rarely match the recorded versions of the music. Some tours have been fraught with disorganization and poor sound technology as well, perhaps a reflection of the dearth of top promoters risking their time and money on the genre.

Last year, the Ruff Ryders/Cash Money Millionaires tour--featuring multi-platinum stars such as DMX, Juvenile and Eve--was the top hip-hop offering, and it stumbled badly. Shows in Irvine, Miami, Philadelphia and Tampa, Fla., were canceled or postponed in the weeks after six people were stabbed during a backstage melee at a Boston area arena.

“With the hard-core rap shows, a lot of promoters fear that there might be some incident at their show or at one the week before,” Bongiovanni says. “It only takes a few knuckleheads.”

Another variable might cross the minds of promoters for the Up in Smoke tour--the volatility of Eminem, who may be the biggest draw on the bill.

A week after “The Marshall Mathers LP” debuted at No. 1, the Detroit rapper was in a Michigan court to answer felony assault and weapons charges stemming from two confrontations. A judge ordered Eminem to return to court in July, but he also allowed the rapper to leave the state and join the tour. (“It’s not like we won’t know where he is,” notes William Harding, a Macomb County, Mich., prosecutor.)

Eminem has been praised by many critics as a superior wordsmith who offers both wry and scathing appraisals of youthful angst, but he also has been the target of advocacy groups for parents, women, gays and lesbians, all of whom take exception to the clowning rapper’s delight at profane, graphic and violent lyrics.

Of course, all of that notoriety may actually help the tour.

“We sold out two shows in one day,” says Ken Scher, an executive vice president at Nederlander, which handles bookings at the Arrowhead Pond. “You can’t get any stronger indication of how marketable this genre is and the strength of this package.”

This tour also has an advantage that few hip-hop tours can claim: history.

“Part of the problem with hip-hop tours is there isn’t a legacy,” says Peter Paterno, Dre’s attorney. “Metallica has been playing since 1982, U2 has been playing since the early ‘80s, so they’ve built bonds over years and years. . . . Not a lot of hip-hop artists have that, or material that deep. . . . With these guys, it’s just hit after hit after hit.”

Agreements Were Reached in March

The all-star tour concept was hatched by Dre late last year and began taking its final form in January and February, and by March the agreements had been made, according to managers for the acts. Organizers acknowledge there were struggles reaching accord on money issues and stage time, but Papale, Cube’s manager, said those squabbles were never bitter or drawn out.

“Really there was a sense of a family atmosphere,” he said. “These guys work great together. It developed and grew very organically or it never would have happened.”

Added Paterno: “It was a nightmare, but it was a good nightmare.”

Xzibit, a junior partner in this grand stable of stars, says he would never have let financial matters keep him off a stage with Dre and Cube. “Even if I was going along without a dime, I would still go,” he says, “This isn’t even about the money. It’s a big show and its going to be under a magnifying glass.”

That scrutiny explains why Dre--a famously meticulous craftsman--ordered what Xzibit calls a “lock-down” for rehearsals early this week in Chula Vista. Only the crew and performers were allowed in, according to an official with Interscope Records, Dre’s label. Dre also spent two days last week working with the tour’s sound system. “Believe me,” Paterno says, “it’ll be state of the art . . . and it’s going to be the best rap tour ever. There isn’t any doubt about it.”

Up in Smoke with Dr. Dre, Eminem, Snoop Dogg, Ice Cube, Warren G, Westside Connection, Mack 10, Tha Eastsidaz, Kurupt, Xzibit tonight at Coors Amphitheatre, 2050 Otay Valley Road, Chula Vista. 7 p.m. (619) 671-3600. Also Saturday and Sunday at the Arrowhead Pond, 2695 E. Katella Ave., Anaheim. 7:30 p.m. Sold out. (714) 704-2500.

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This film of the legendary Up In Smoke tour from 2000 gives you a front row seat to the greatest hip hop experience ever captured on film. The combination of Ice Cube, Eminem, Dr Dre and Snoop Dogg was always going to be extraordinary and so it proved. Filmed across the tour as it travelled through America it shows the controversy, the girls, the humour and most of all some of the finest live hip hop performances ever seen

Product details

• Aspect Ratio ‏ : ‎ 1.77:1
• Product Dimensions ‏ : ‎ 7.56 x 5.39 x 0.59 inches; 2.82 ounces
• Media Format ‏ : ‎ NTSC, Import
• Release date ‏ : ‎ January 1, 2016
• Language ‏ : ‎ English (Dolby Surround 5.1), English (Dolby Stereo 2.0)
• Studio ‏ : ‎ IMPORTS
• ASIN ‏ : ‎ B0024ODWPK
• Number of discs ‏ : ‎ 1
• #88,780 in DVD

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The Up in Smoke Tour

This is it! Your front row seat to the greatest hip hop experience ever captured on film. This is the ultimate back stage pass for your total pleasure. "Up In Smoke" is it and now you've got... Read all This is it! Your front row seat to the greatest hip hop experience ever captured on film. This is the ultimate back stage pass for your total pleasure. "Up In Smoke" is it and now you've got it all. Fire it up. This is it! Your front row seat to the greatest hip hop experience ever captured on film. This is the ultimate back stage pass for your total pleasure. "Up In Smoke" is it and now you've got it all. Fire it up.

• Philip G. Atwell
• 9 User reviews
• 2 Critic reviews

• (as Nathan Kane Mathers)

• (as M.C. Ren)

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• Connections References Boyz n the Hood (1991)
• Soundtracks We Be Clubbin' Performed by Ice Cube Written by Ice Cube (as O. Jackson) and Rick Dutch Cousin (as R. Cousin) Produced by Rick Dutch Cousin Courtesy of Priority Records

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• Aug 15, 2020
• December 2, 2000 (United States)
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The Up in Smoke Tour is a West Coast hip hop tour in 2000 featuring artists Ice Cube, Eminem, Proof, Snoop Dogg, Dr. Dre, Nate Dogg, Kurupt, D12, MC Ren, Westside Connection, Mel-Man, Tha Eastsidaz, Doggy's Angels, Devin The Dude, Warren G, TQ, Truth Hurts and Xzibit.

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This is it! Your front row seat to the greatest hip hop experience ever captured on film. This is the ultimate back stage pass for your total pleasure. “Up In Smoke” is it and now you’ve got it all. Fire it up.

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Product Key Features

• Studio Eagle Rock Ent
• Release Year 2000
• Movie/TV Title The Up in Smoke Tour
• Sub-Genre Music Video (Concert/Performance)
• Genre Rap/Hip Hop
• Item Length 7.51in
• Item Height 0.52in
• Item Width 5.39in
• Item Weight 0.20lb.

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• Number of Discs 1

The Up In Smoke Tour

Love it! I usually listen to heavy metal but have seen this DVD before and love it! All great rappers like Dr Dre. Ice Cube, Snoop Dogg, Eminen and Xhibit all are putting on a great show. So fire up that blunt and kick back and enjoy!

I’ve owned this dvd probably 10 time over through the years, but I couldn’t find it anywhere but here. Came packaged up like Fort Knox and was fair priced. I call that a “win”!

Works fine, no complaints. Thanks for helping me bring back some memories

Highly recommend

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Eminem 2000 June, Indianapolis, Up In Smoke Tour

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Eminem photographed backstage of the Conseco Fieldhouse ( now known as the Gainbridge Fieldhouse) arena with fans in Indianapolis, IN, US on Friday, June 30, 2000 as part of the Up In Smoke Tour

“[He] could not have been nicer to us and took time to chat/sign/snap pics.” — @/crschneider (crschneider) via Twitter 

© Photograph from Chris Schneider via Twitter 

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Breaking news, travis kelce was ‘blushing’ when taylor swift attended first chiefs game: teammate.

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Chiefs long snapper James Winchester thought Travis Kelce and Taylor Swift’s romance was just smoke and mirrors when they were first linked last summer.

But when he spotted her in Kelce’s family suite while at the Chiefs-Bears game on Sept. 24, which marked her first public appearance supporting Kelce at work, Winchester was impressed — and he said Kelce was blushing and smiling.

“That was an interesting spectacle,” Winchester said on  Wednesday’s installment of the “Like a Farmer Podcast” when Pat Spinosa said Swift’s brought a new fanbase to the NFL. “We’d heard rumors [about Travis and Taylor dating] … It wasn’t until the Chicago game in Kansas City … It’s towards the end of the game and one of our equipment managers, Jay White, I was standing with him on the sideline and were doing pretty well that game, we were winning pretty big.

“I just made this comment and I said, ‘Jay I think this is all made up. I think this is a big rumor,'” Winchester recalled. “And Jay looked at me and he goes, “No dude, she’s here,’ and I was like, ‘What?’ … and he goes, ‘She’s right there.’

“… I was like, ‘That’s it, that’s Taylor Swift. That’s cool. She’s here.'”

That’s when Winchester said he walked up to Kelce on the sideline and approached him about Swift being there.

“I’m like, ‘Hey man, that’s cool she’s here,’ and he’s like, ‘What do you mean? Did they put her up on the Jumbotron or something?’ and I’m like, ‘No, no, Jay just told me,’” Winchester recalled.

“I was like, ‘that’s awesome, good for you’ and he was just smiling and was kind of blushing.”

James went on to explain that he saw the couple “get on a cart” while walking up a ramp after Chiefs beat the Bears 41-10.

“So we’re walking by, and made some jokes to him on the way by, and

After meeting Swift later that night, Winchester recalled the singer asking him about his three kids he shares with his wife, Emily.

The first thing she said was, “’Hey you’re the guy with the cute kids,'” because we had my son and daughter out on the field and I’m like, ‘I think I just became a T Swift fan.'”

Winchester explained that Swift grew on him after being around her during the 2023 season.

“I mean I’m a fan of her because being around her this year and hearing everything she’s such a genuine person. And where it might’ve gotten old for people seeing all of that posted. For us, it was great. It wasn’t a distraction. Couldn’t be happier for Trav and her and that whole deal. It seems like a really good thing for him and her.

“Then her support all the way through the Super Bowl it was awesome… For those out there who got a little tired of the T Swift stuff when they were watching the Chiefs, I’m sure they got a little tired of them showing them too, so it was a mutual thing there. Getting to meet her family and have conversations with them throughout the year was fun.”

Dave Merritt, a defensive backs coach for the Kansas City Chiefs, previously said that Swift attended Kelce’s games before she was spotted at one for the first time last September.

Kelce and Swift went public with their relationship when they stepped out together holding hands while in New York City in October.

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A Plan to Remake the Middle East

While talks for a cease-fire between israel and hamas continue, another set of negotiations is happening behind the scenes..

This transcript was created using speech recognition software. While it has been reviewed by human transcribers, it may contain errors. Please review the episode audio before quoting from this transcript and email [email protected] with any questions.

From New York Times, I’m Michael Barbaro. This is The Daily.

[MUSIC CONTINUES]

Today, if and when Israel and Hamas reach a deal for a ceasefire fire, the United States will immediately turn to a different set of negotiations over a grand diplomatic bargain that it believes could rebuild Gaza and remake the Middle East. My colleague Michael Crowley has been reporting on that plan and explains why those involved in it believe they have so little time left to get it done.

It’s Wednesday, May 8.

Michael, I want to start with what feels like a pretty dizzying set of developments in this conflict over the past few days. Just walk us through them?

Well, over the weekend, there was an intense round of negotiations in an effort, backed by the United States, to reach a ceasefire in the Gaza war.

The latest ceasefire proposal would reportedly see as many as 33 Israeli hostages released in exchange for potentially hundreds of Palestinian prisoners.

US officials were very eager to get this deal.

Pressure for a ceasefire has been building ahead of a threatened Israeli assault on Rafah.

Because Israel has been threatening a military offensive in the Southern Palestinian city of Rafah, where a huge number of people are crowded.

Fleeing the violence to the North. And now they’re packed into Rafah. Exposed and vulnerable, they need to be protected.

And the US says it would be a humanitarian catastrophe on top of the emergency that’s already underway.

Breaking news this hour — very important breaking news. An official Hamas source has told The BBC that it does accept a proposal for a ceasefire deal in Gaza.

And for a few hours on Monday, it looked like there might have been a major breakthrough when Hamas put out a statement saying that it had accepted a negotiating proposal.

Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu says the ceasefire proposal does not meet his country’s requirements. But Netanyahu says he will send a delegation of mediators to continue those talks. Now, the terms —

But those hopes were dashed pretty quickly when the Israelis took a look at what Hamas was saying and said that it was not a proposal that they had agreed to. It had been modified.

And overnight —

Israeli troops stormed into Rafah. Video showing tanks crashing over a sign at the entrance of the city.

— the Israelis launched a partial invasion of Rafah.

It says Hamas used the area to launch a deadly attack on Israeli troops over the weekend.

And they have now secured a border crossing at the Southern end of Gaza and are conducting targeted strikes. This is not yet the full scale invasion that President Biden has adamantly warned Israel against undertaking, but it is an escalation by Israel.

So while all that drama might suggest that these talks are in big trouble, these talks are very much still alive and ongoing and there is still a possibility of a ceasefire deal.

And the reason that’s so important is not just to stop the fighting in Gaza and relieve the suffering there, but a ceasefire also opens the door to a grand diplomatic bargain, one that involves Israel and its Arab neighbors and the Palestinians, and would have very far-reaching implications.

And what is that grand bargain. Describe what you’re talking about?

Well, it’s incredibly ambitious. It would reshape Israel’s relationship with its Arab neighbors, principally Saudi Arabia. But it’s important to understand that this is a vision that has actually been around since well before October 7. This was a diplomatic project that President Biden had been investing in and negotiating actually in a very real and tangible way long before the Hamas attacks and the Gaza war.

And President Biden was looking to build on something that President Trump had done, which was a series of agreements that the Trump administration struck in which Israel and some of its Arab neighbors agreed to have normal diplomatic relations for the first time.

Right, they’re called the Abraham Accords.

That’s right. And, you know, Biden doesn’t like a lot of things, most things that Trump did. But he actually likes this, because the idea is that they contribute to stability and economic integration in the Middle East, the US likes Israel having friends and likes having a tight-knit alliance against Iran.

President Biden agrees with the Saudis and with the Israelis, that Iran is really the top threat to everybody here. So, how can you build on this? How can you expand it? Well, the next and biggest step would be normalizing relations between Israel and Saudi Arabia.

And the Saudis have made clear that they want to do this and that they’re ready to do this. They weren’t ready to do it in the Trump years. But Mohammed bin Salman, the Crown Prince of Saudi Arabia, has made clear he wants to do it now.

So this kind of triangular deal began to take shape before October 7, in which the US, Israel, and Saudi Arabia would enter this three way agreement in which everyone would get something that they wanted.

And just walk through what each side gets in this pre-October 7th version of these negotiations?

So for Israel, you get normalized ties with its most important Arab neighbor and really the country that sets the tone for the whole Muslim world, which is Saudi Arabia of course. It makes Israel feel safer and more secure. Again, it helps to build this alliance against Iran, which Israel considers its greatest threat, and it comes with benefits like economic ties and travel and tourism. And Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu has been very open, at least before October 7th, that this was his highest diplomatic and foreign policy priority.

For the Saudis, the rationale is similar when it comes to Israel. They think that it will bring stability. They like having a more explicitly close ally against Iran. There are economic and cultural benefits. Saudi Arabia is opening itself up in general, encouraging more tourism.

But I think that what’s most important to the Crown Prince, Mohammed bin Salman, is what he can get from the United States. And what he has been asking for are a couple of essential things. One is a security agreement whose details have always been a little bit vague, but I think essentially come down to reliable arms supplies from the United States that are not going to be cut off or paused on a whim, as he felt happened when President Biden stopped arms deliveries in 2021 because of how Saudi was conducting its war in Yemen. The Saudis were furious about that.

Saudi Arabia also wants to start a domestic nuclear power program. They are planning for a very long-term future, possibly a post-oil future. And they need help getting a nuclear program off the ground.

And they want that from the US?

And they want that from the US.

Now, those are big asks from the us. But from the perspective of President Biden, there are some really enticing things about this possible agreement. One is that it will hopefully produce more stability in the region. Again, the US likes having a tight-knit alliance against Iran.

The US also wants to have a strong relationship with Saudi Arabia. You know, despite the anger at Mohammed bin Salman over the murder of the Saudi dissident Jamal Khashoggi, the Biden administration recognizes that given the Saudis control over global oil production and their strategic importance in the Middle East, they need to have a good relationship with them. And the administration has been worried about the influence of China in the region and with the Saudis in particular.

So this is an opportunity for the US to draw the Saudis closer. Whatever our moral qualms might be about bin Salman and the Saudi government, this is an opportunity to bring the Saudis closer, which is something the Biden administration sees as a strategic benefit.

All three of these countries — big, disparate countries that normally don’t see eye-to-eye, this was a win-win-win on a military, economic, and strategic front.

That’s right. But there was one important actor in the region that did not see itself as winning, and that was the Palestinians.

[MUSIC PLAYING]

First, it’s important to understand that the Palestinians have always expected that the Arab countries in the Middle East would insist that Israel recognize a Palestinian state before those countries were willing to essentially make total peace and have normal relations with Israel.

So when the Abraham Accords happened in the Trump administration, the Palestinians felt like they’d been thrown under the bus because the Abraham Accords gave them virtually nothing. But the Palestinians did still hold out hope that Saudi Arabia would be their savior. And for years, Saudi Arabia has said that Israel must give the Palestinians a state if there’s going to be a normal relationship between Israel and Saudi Arabia.

Now the Palestinians see the Saudis in discussions with the US and Israel about a normalization agreement, and there appears to be very little on offer for the Palestinians. And they are feeling like they’re going to be left out in the cold here.

Right. And in the minds of the Palestinians, having already been essentially sold out by all their other Arab neighbors, the prospect that Saudi Arabia, of all countries, the most important Muslim Arab country in the region, would sell them out, had to be extremely painful.

It was a nightmare scenario for them. And in the minds of many analysts and US officials, this was a factor, one of many, in Hamas’s decision to stage the October 7th attacks.

Hamas, like other Palestinian leaders, was seeing the prospect that the Middle East was moving on and essentially, in their view, giving up on the Palestinian cause, and that Israel would be able to have friendly, normal relations with Arab countries around the region, and that it could continue with hardline policies toward the Palestinians and a refusal, as Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu has said publicly, to accept a Palestinian state.

Right. So Michael, once Hamas carries out the October 7th attacks in an effort to destroy a status quo that it thinks is leaving them less and less relevant, more and more hopeless, including potentially this prospect that Saudi Arabia is going to normalize relations with Israel, what happens to these pre-October 7th negotiations between the US, Saudi Arabia, and Israel?

Well, I think there was a snap assumption that these talks were dead and buried. That they couldn’t possibly survive a cataclysm like this.

But then something surprising happened. It became clear that all the parties were still determined to pull-off the normalization.

And most surprisingly of all, perhaps, was the continued eagerness of Saudi Arabia, which publicly was professing outrage over the Israeli response to the Hamas attacks, but privately was still very much engaged in these conversations and trying to move them forward.

And in fact, what has happened is that the scope of this effort has grown substantially. October 7th didn’t kill these talks. It actually made them bigger, more complicated, and some people would argue, more important than ever.

We’ll be right back.

Michael, walk us through what exactly happens to these three-way negotiations after October 7th that ends up making them, as you just said, more complicated and more important than ever?

Well, it’s more important than ever because of the incredible need in Gaza. And it’s going to take a deal like this and the approval of Saudi Arabia to unlock the kind of massive reconstruction project required to essentially rebuild Gaza from the rubble. Saudi Arabia and its Arab friends are also going to be instrumental in figuring out how Gaza is governed, and they might even provide troops to help secure it. None of those things are going to happen without a deal like this.

Fascinating.

But this is all much more complicated now because the price for a deal like this has gone up.

And by price, you mean?

What Israel would have to give up. [MUSIC PLAYING]

From Saudi Arabia’s perspective, you have an Arab population that is furious at Israel. It now feels like a really hard time to do a normalization deal with the Israelis. It was never going to be easy, but this is about as bad a time to do it as there has been in a generation at least. And I think that President Biden and the people around him understand that the status quo between Israel and the Palestinians is intolerable and it is going to lead to chaos and violence indefinitely.

So now you have two of the three parties to this agreement, the Saudis and the Americans, basically asking a new price after October 7th, and saying to the Israelis, if we’re going to do this deal, it has to not only do something for the Palestinians, it has to do something really big. You have to commit to the creation of a Palestinian state. Now, I’ll be specific and say that what you hear the Secretary of State, Antony Blinken, say is that the agreement has to include an irreversible time-bound path to a Palestinian state.

We don’t know exactly what that looks like, but it’s some kind of a firm commitment, the likes of which the world and certainly the Israelis have not made before.

Something that was very much not present in the pre-October 7th vision of this negotiation. So much so that, as we just talked about, the Palestinians were left feeling completely out in the cold and furious at it.

That’s right. There was no sign that people were thinking that ambitiously about the Palestinians in this deal before October 7th. And the Palestinians certainly felt like they weren’t going to get much out of it. And that has completely changed now.

So, Michael, once this big new dimension after October 7th, which is the insistence by Saudi Arabia and the US that there be a Palestinian state or a path to a Palestinian state, what is the reaction specifically from Israel, which is, of course, the third major party to this entire conversation?

Well, Israel, or at least its political leadership, hates it. You know, this is just an extremely tough sell in Israel. It would have been a tough sell before October 7th. It’s even harder now.

Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu is completely unrepentantly open in saying that there’s not going to be a Palestinian state on his watch. He won’t accept it. He says that it’s a strategic risk to his country. He says that it would, in effect, reward Hamas.

His argument is that terrorism has forced a conversation about statehood onto the table that wasn’t there before October 7th. Sure, it’s always in the background. It’s a perennial issue in global affairs, but it was not something certainly that the US and Israel’s Arab neighbors were actively pushing. Netanyahu also has — you know, he governs with the support of very right-wing members of a political coalition that he has cobbled together. And that coalition is quite likely to fall apart if he does embrace a Palestinian state or a path to a Palestinian state.

Now, he might be able to cobble together some sort of alternative, but it creates a political crisis for him.

And finally, you know, I think in any conversation about Israel, it’s worth bearing in mind something you hear from senior US officials these days, which is that although there is often finger pointing at Netanyahu and a desire to blame Netanyahu as this obstructionist who won’t agree to deals, what they say is Netanyahu is largely reflecting his population and the political establishment of his country, not just the right-wingers in his coalition who are clearly extremist.

But actually the prevailing views of the Israeli public. And the Israeli public and their political leaders across the spectrum right now with few exceptions, are not interested in talking about a Palestinian state when there are still dozens and dozens of Israeli hostages in tunnels beneath Gaza.

So it very much looks like this giant agreement that once seemed doable before October 7th might be more important to everyone involved than ever, given that it’s a plan for rebuilding Gaza and potentially preventing future October 7th’s from happening, but because of this higher price that Israel would have to pay, which is the acceptance of a Palestinian state, it seems from everything you’re saying, that this is more and more out of reach than ever before and hard to imagine happening in the immediate future. So if the people negotiating it are being honest, Michael, are they ready to acknowledge that it doesn’t look like this is going to happen?

Well, not quite yet. As time goes by, they certainly say it’s getting harder and harder, but they’re still trying, and they still think there’s a chance. But both the Saudis and the Biden administration understand that there’s very little time left to do this.

Well, what do you mean there’s very little time left? It would seem like time might benefit this negotiation in that it might give Israel distance from October 7th to think potentially differently about a Palestinian state?

Potentially. But Saudi Arabia wants to get this deal done in the Biden administration because Mohammed bin Salman has concluded this has to be done under a Democratic president.

Because Democrats in Congress are going to be very reluctant to approve a security agreement between the United States and Saudi Arabia.

It’s important to understand that if there is a security agreement, that’s something Congress is going to have to approve. And you’re just not going to get enough Democrats in Congress to support a deal with Saudi Arabia, who a lot of Democrats don’t like to begin with, because they see them as human rights abusers.

But if a Democratic president is asking them to do it, they’re much more likely to go along.

Right. So Saudi Arabia fears that if Biden loses and Trump is president, that those same Democrats would balk at this deal in a way that they wouldn’t if it were being negotiated under President Biden?

Exactly. Now, from President Biden’s perspective, politically, think about a president who’s running for re-election, who is presiding right now over chaos in the Middle East, who doesn’t seem to have good answers for the Israeli-Palestinian question, this is an opportunity for President Biden to deliver what could be at least what he would present as a diplomatic masterstroke that does multiple things at once, including creating a new pathway for Israel and the Palestinians to coexist, to break through the logjam, even as he is also improving Israel’s relations with Saudi Arabia.

So Biden and the Crown Prince hope that they can somehow persuade Bibi Netanyahu that in spite of all the reasons that he thinks this is a terrible idea, that this is a bet worth taking on Israel’s and the region’s long-term security and future?

That’s right. Now, no one has explained very clearly exactly how this is going to work, and it’s probably going to require artful diplomacy, possibly even a scenario where the Israelis would agree to something that maybe means one thing to them and means something else to other people. But Biden officials refuse to say that it’s hopeless and they refuse to essentially take Netanyahu’s preliminary no’s for an answer. And they still see some way that they can thread this incredibly narrow needle.

Michael, I’m curious about a constituency that we haven’t been talking about because they’re not at the table in these discussions that we are talking about here. And that would be Hamas. How does Hamas feel about the prospect of such a deal like this ever taking shape. Do they see it as any kind of a victory and vindication for what they did on October 7th?

So it’s hard to know exactly what Hamas’s leadership is thinking. I think they can feel two things. I think they can feel on the one hand, that they have established themselves as the champions of the Palestinian people who struck a blow against Israel and against a diplomatic process that was potentially going to leave the Palestinians out in the cold.

At the same time, Hamas has no interest in the kind of two-state solution that the US is trying to promote. They think Israel should be destroyed. They think the Palestinian state should cover the entire geography of what is now Israel, and they want to lead a state like that. And that’s not something that the US, Saudi Arabia, or anyone else is going to tolerate.

So what Hamas wants is to fight, to be the leader of the Palestinian people, and to destroy Israel. And they’re not interested in any sort of a peace process or statehood process.

It seems very clear from everything you’ve said here that neither Israel nor Hamas is ready to have the conversation about a grand bargain diplomatic program. And I wonder if that inevitably has any bearing on the ceasefire negotiations that are going on right now between the two of them that are supposed to bring this conflict to some sort of an end, even if it’s just temporary?

Because if, as you said, Michael, a ceasefire opens the door to this larger diplomatic solution, and these two players don’t necessarily want that larger diplomatic solution, doesn’t that inevitably impact their enthusiasm for even reaching a ceasefire?

Well, it certainly doesn’t help. You know, this is such a hellish problem. And of course, you first have the question of whether Israel and Hamas can make a deal on these immediate issues, including the hostages, Palestinian prisoners, and what the Israeli military is going to do, how long a ceasefire might last.

But on top of that, you have these much bigger diplomatic questions that are looming over them. And it’s not clear that either side is ready to turn and face those bigger questions.

So while for the Biden administration and for Saudi Arabia, this is a way out of this crisis, these larger diplomatic solutions, it’s not clear that it’s a conversation that the two parties that are actually at war here are prepared to start having.

Well, Michael, thank you very much. We appreciate it.

On Tuesday afternoon, under intense pressure from the US, delegations from Israel and Hamas arrived in Cairo to resume negotiations over a potential ceasefire. But in a statement, Israel’s Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu made clear that even with the talks underway, his government would, quote, “continue to wage war against Hamas.”

Here’s what else you need to know today. In a dramatic day of testimony, Stormy Daniels offered explicit details about an alleged sexual encounter with Donald Trump that ultimately led to the hush money payment at the center of his trial. Daniels testified that Trump answered the door in pajamas, that he told her not to worry that he was married, and that he did not use a condom when they had sex.

That prompted lawyers for Trump to seek a mistrial based on what they called prejudicial testimony. But the judge in the case rejected that request. And,

We’ve seen a ferocious surge of anti-Semitism in America and around the world.

In a speech on Tuesday honoring victims of the Holocaust, President Biden condemned what he said was the alarming rise of anti-Semitism in the United States after the October 7th attacks on Israel. And he expressed worry that too many Americans were already forgetting the horrors of that attack.

The Jewish community, I want you to know I see your fear, your hurt, and your pain. Let me reassure you, as your president, you’re not alone. You belong. You always have and you always will.

Today’s episode was produced by Nina Feldman, Clare Toeniskoetter, and Rikki Novetsky. It was edited by Liz O. Baylen, contains original music by Marion Lozano, Elisheba Ittoop, and Dan Powell, and was engineered by Alyssa Moxley. Our theme music is by Jim Brunberg and Ben Landsverk of Wonderly.

That’s it for The Daily. I’m Michael Barbaro. See you tomorrow.

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Hosted by Michael Barbaro

Featuring Michael Crowley

Produced by Nina Feldman ,  Clare Toeniskoetter and Rikki Novetsky

Edited by Liz O. Baylen

Original music by Marion Lozano ,  Elisheba Ittoop and Dan Powell

Engineered by Alyssa Moxley

Listen and follow The Daily Apple Podcasts | Spotify | Amazon Music | YouTube

If and when Israel and Hamas reach a deal for a cease-fire, the United States will immediately turn to a different set of negotiations over a grand diplomatic bargain that it believes could rebuild Gaza and remake the Middle East.

Michael Crowley, who covers the State Department and U.S. foreign policy for The Times, explains why those involved in this plan believe they have so little time left to get it done.

On today’s episode

Michael Crowley , a reporter covering the State Department and U.S. foreign policy for The New York Times.

Background reading :

Talks on a cease-fire in the Gaza war are once again at an uncertain stage .

Here’s how the push for a deal between Israel and Saudi Arabia looked before Oct. 7 .

From early in the war, President Biden has said that a lasting resolution requires a “real” Palestinian state .

Here’s what Israeli officials are discussing about postwar Gaza.

There are a lot of ways to listen to The Daily. Here’s how.

We aim to make transcripts available the next workday after an episode’s publication. You can find them at the top of the page.

The Daily is made by Rachel Quester, Lynsea Garrison, Clare Toeniskoetter, Paige Cowett, Michael Simon Johnson, Brad Fisher, Chris Wood, Jessica Cheung, Stella Tan, Alexandra Leigh Young, Lisa Chow, Eric Krupke, Marc Georges, Luke Vander Ploeg, M.J. Davis Lin, Dan Powell, Sydney Harper, Mike Benoist, Liz O. Baylen, Asthaa Chaturvedi, Rachelle Bonja, Diana Nguyen, Marion Lozano, Corey Schreppel, Rob Szypko, Elisheba Ittoop, Mooj Zadie, Patricia Willens, Rowan Niemisto, Jody Becker, Rikki Novetsky, John Ketchum, Nina Feldman, Will Reid, Carlos Prieto, Ben Calhoun, Susan Lee, Lexie Diao, Mary Wilson, Alex Stern, Dan Farrell, Sophia Lanman, Shannon Lin, Diane Wong, Devon Taylor, Alyssa Moxley, Summer Thomad, Olivia Natt, Daniel Ramirez and Brendan Klinkenberg.

Our theme music is by Jim Brunberg and Ben Landsverk of Wonderly. Special thanks to Sam Dolnick, Paula Szuchman, Lisa Tobin, Larissa Anderson, Julia Simon, Sofia Milan, Mahima Chablani, Elizabeth Davis-Moorer, Jeffrey Miranda, Renan Borelli, Maddy Masiello, Isabella Anderson and Nina Lassam.

Michael Crowley covers the State Department and U.S. foreign policy for The Times. He has reported from nearly three dozen countries and often travels with the secretary of state. More about Michael Crowley

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Boozed up patrons disrupting Eddie Redmayne’s hit Broadway show ‘Cabaret,’ ‘incredibly drunk’

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The booze is flowin’ on Broadway.

According to numerous teed off theatergoers, the 75-minute “prologue” offered before the new hit show “Cabaret” — in which dancers perform in the “Kit Kat Club” bar area of the August Wilson Theater while attendees imbibe — is leading to some bad behavior by tipsy guests, we hear.

All guests at the show are offered a free shot of schnapps and given a drink voucher when entering the performance starring Eddie Redmayne and Gayle Rankin. The show is set in a seedy club in Weimar-era Germany as it falls to the Nazis.

There is also champagne and cocktails served during the show to those who have shelled out for pricey tables.

“The lady next to me was incredibly drunk, had to get up to pee multiple times during the show, was clinking around her ice cubes (lady, you finished it),” complained one person on a Reddit thread about the show.

In another Reddit conversation , people complained about getting in shouting matches when asking unruly patrons to tone it down.

“They were clearly drunk, and over-served,” said one Redditor of a rowdy couple. “She was cackling, talking, singing, burping, and trying to engage with the actors. . . When I finally asked to her to please be quiet she loudly told me, ‘F–k you!'”

When this person’s partner went to alert management, they said, the allegedly blotto woman, “again said, ‘F–k you!’ Then she gave me two middle fingers, and held them there.”

This person claims security told them they were “monitoring” the situation. 

Another person claims they were near a “drunk woman in the front row who almost got kicked out for loudly blowing kisses at Bebe [Neuwirth] every time she was on stage.” They added that the patron, “received a stern talking to from security during intermission, and then looked confused and sleepy for all of Act II.”

This person says that when her husband confronted the woman and her date, they got in a shouting match.

“He only got in the shouting match when the man started saying ‘f-you’ to me after I backed up another lady who told them they were rude as the lights came up,” they claimed. The attendee added that, “We did still manage to have a good time, but definitely put a damper on the evening.”

Another person commented, “I went last week and we had a single person next to us was wasted kept asking me and my wife what was going on. People are definitely getting over-served.”

Several people pointed out the problem is not specific to “Cabaret,” and they almost all loved the the show. One commenter said, “The show is fantastic and worth dealing with some drunk dummies.”

Last month at “Cabaret,” a woman was thrown out after walking on stage during the song “Two Ladies,” and grabbing Redmayne .

The star told The Hollywood Reporter of the incident, “I was so in the scene that I actually don’t remember that. There was definitely someone who was a bit too eager who was clapping along to the rhythm of ‘Mein Herr,’ and singing along a bit too vocally. We love a vocal and passionate audience, but there’s a line.”

Many also complained about cell phones going off, with one person kidding, “Where is Patti Lupone when you need her?” referencing a 2015 moment when the legendary Tony winner snatched a phone from an audience member during another show, “Shows for Days.”

Another fan suggested, “Just think of it as part of the experience. If they had cellphones in Weimar Germany, they would be ringing during the show too. And everyone would be drunk too. This is immersive theatre!”

A rep from “Cabaret” declined to comment.

This isn’t the first time there’s been some commotion at a production of “Cabaret.”

During a 2014 revival directed by Sam Mendes — and starring Michelle Williams and Alan Cumming — “Transformers” star Shia LaBeouf was in the audience and infamously arrested during intermission for disorderly conduct, including lighting up a cigarette and yelling at the actors. 

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